{"id":7514,"date":"2014-09-23T10:39:51","date_gmt":"2014-09-23T10:39:51","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.eoisabi.org\/?p=7514"},"modified":"2020-04-06T15:37:18","modified_gmt":"2020-04-06T15:37:18","slug":"life-and-how-to-survive-it-extracts","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/englishroam.com\/?p=7514","title":{"rendered":"LIFE and how to survive it"},"content":{"rendered":"
\u00a4  Robin Skynner<\/a> & John Cleese<\/a>:   LIFE and how to survive it    [1993]<\/strong><\/h6>\n

The Price of Everything and the Value of Nothing<\/strong>  – [excerpts]\"Truth\"<\/p>\n

Robin<\/strong>: \u2026I like the idea of a Greek psychologist called Charis Katakis<\/strong>. She\u2019s taken a word we\u2019re familiar with \u2013\u2018myth\u2019<\/em>– and given it a wider meaning. Roughly, she uses it to mean the ideas and stories that enable human beings to cooperate and work together as a society […]<\/p>\n

John<\/strong>:   So, as we try to construct our mental maps, we first use our experience, and then we supplement that with information from what Katakis calls myths. Then we\u00b4ll have a reasonably complete map which will guide us how best to fit in with others.<\/p>\n

Robin<\/strong>:  And also how to live a happy and fulfilling life.<\/p>\n

John<\/strong>:   Hang on, isn\u2019t that two things? One about society, and the other about the individual.<\/p>\n

Robin<\/strong>:   Yes, but they\u2019re very closely connected. We\u2019ve agreed that a healthy society is one which makes possible the development of healthy individuals. The other side of the coin is: the more that people develop individually, the more they\u2019ll be able to give back to society. So in looking at Katakis myths, we\u2019ll expect them to have the two aspects: the first is to provide a basic structure for society, enabling people to live together with as much cooperation and harmony as possible; the second is concerned with the growth and maturing of the individual, enabling each person to understand and organize their life by finding a greater harmony within themselves.<\/p>\n

John<\/strong>:   Fair enough. But these Katakis myths . . . I mean, they extend all the way from scientific knowledge to fairy  stories. Can you really call scientific knowledge a \u2018myth\u2019?<\/p>\n

Robin<\/strong>:   It fits this definition completely \u2013 abstractions that enable groups of people to cooperate in a common task. Also, although scientific knowledge is expressed in as unambiguous a way as possible, so that the maximum number of people can agree on what it means, philosophers of science have now shown very clearly that much of this \u2018agreement\u2019 is possible only because of shared perceptual habits within a particular culture; it\u2019s these shared cultural perceptions that make certain assumptions seem \u2018obvious\u2019 or \u2018commonsense\u2019; but they\u2019re really describing cultural habits, which are sometimes deeply ingrained and associated with strong emotions   [. . .]<\/strong><\/p>\n

\"\"<\/p>\n

[bold<\/em><\/strong> types are mine<\/em>]<\/p>\n

Robin<\/b>:  \u2026 I think sports and games were much healthier for people when winning was kept in perspective. The old British ideas of \u2018fair play\u2019<\/em> and \u2018good loser\u2019<\/em> were thoroughly admirable ones, and came from a much more mature and integrated philosophy of life.<\/p>\n

John<\/b>:  It\u2019s suddenly occurred to me that we\u2019ve been discussing all this without mentioning the huge increase in the amount of money that winning brings nowadays. Perhaps \u2018money\u2019 is the value I should be asking you about above all others. It\u2019s a huge aid to social cooperation, yet, [\u2026] it seems to me fundamentally morally neutral. I mean by that simply that it facilitates the exchange of goods, without being exactly good or bad in itself. Yet there are a million myths about it, and an enormous amount of people\u2019s values and behaviour are determined by it. How do you see the different levels of mental health interpreting good old amoral money . . . ?<\/p>\n

Robin<\/b>:  It\u2019s a huge subject. But let\u2019s look at it in the light of the three<\/i> indicators of health we\u2019ve already discussed. First, unusually healthy people see the world very clearly and realistically<\/b><\/em>. So they are more likely to see exactly what money is \u2013 it\u2019s a means of getting the things you need to give you the life you\u2019ve decided will satisfy you best. And healthy people will be clearer about what\u2019s really satisfying too, so they\u2019ll have a pretty accurate idea of how much money they need. And they won\u2019t be likely to waste much time on making more than that!<\/p>\n

John<\/b>:  So people are not behaving healthily if they spend a lot of time acquiring more money than they really need.<\/p>\n

Robin<\/b>:  No.<\/p>\n

John<\/b>: . . . Well if they do, it must be because of the symbolic value that money has for them.<\/p>\n

Robin<\/b>:  That\u2019s right. For some people, money is primarily a symbol of their power or status \u2013 their position in the hierarchy; for some, especially a certain kind of Puritan, possession of it comb\u00e9is actual moral Brownie points; and for some who\u2019ve suffered from real poverty in their earlier lives it\u2019s symbolic of security against a return to that deprived state. And it\u2019s not just a question of financial poverty. For many people who have lacked love and emotional security in childhood, money comes to be a substitute, a source of security and gratification over which they can have complete control. It\u2019s one reason many people never feel they have enough; it never meets the real need, which is emotional.<\/p>\n

John<\/b>:  Are there any specifically psychiatric insights into the compulsive accumulation of money that you\u2019ve found particularly interesting?<\/p>\n

Robin<\/b>:  I\u2019ve never come across a person like that who was happy!<\/p>\n

John<\/b>:  So is it fair to say that the more a person search for money is compulsive, and based on some symbolic value they\u2019re unaware of, the lower the level of mental health they\u2019re manifesting?<\/p>\n

Robin<\/b>:  Yes, I\u2019d accept that.<\/p>\n

John<\/b>:   So that\u2019s money looked at from one aspect of health \u2013 realistic perception. What\u2019s the second aspect that sheds light on Lucre?<\/p>\n

Robin<\/b>:  Our old friend, \u2018integrity\u2019<\/b><\/em>. This simply means that healthy people will apply the same values to the Money \u2013 making part of their lives as they do to their personal lives; they won\u2019t treat them as separate compartments.<\/p>\n

John<\/b>:  So the cynical \u2018Business is Business\u2019<\/em> attitude won\u2019t apply?<\/p>\n

Robin<\/b>:  No, even if the workplace sometimes feels a bit fierce, the healthier people will try to hang on to their values.<\/p>\n

John<\/b>:  But there are always a few really nasty people out there in the business world, aren\u2019t there? I\u2019ve met two myself…<\/p>\n

Robin<\/b>:  Plenty of them. But remember that \u2018healthies\u2019<\/em> are realistic. They\u2019ll take all necessary precautions if they have to deal with somebody they judge to be unscrupulous –  but that\u2019ll be true of the rest of their lives too.<\/p>\n

John<\/b>:  Nice to think some of the best medieval attitudes are still around. And what\u2019s the third measure of health that illuminates attitudes towards money?<\/p>\n

Robin<\/b>:  The most obvious one \u2013 the Affiliative<\/b> Attitude<\/em>. Healthier people will be generous with any money they have to spare, spreading it round in rather the same way as they spread their warmth and friendliness and goodwill.<\/p>\n

John<\/b>:  It\u2019s interesting, isn\u2019t it?, that there\u2019s such a dislike of someone who won\u2019t stand their round of drinks! But I guess people intuitively sense that it reveals a person\u2019s deeper attitude towards their friends.<\/p>\n

Robin<\/b>:  Behaviour like that usually reflects a general tendency, doen\u2019t it? If it\u2019s persistent, it\u2019s likely to show in other aspects of the person\u2019s behaviour . . .<\/p>\n

\"\"\u00a4 Afterthought:  The end?<\/h6>\n

John<\/strong>:   I know a doctor who says that he\u2019s never seen anyone on a deathbed yet who has confessed.  \u2018I wish i\u2019d spent more time at the office.\u2019<\/p>\n

Robin<\/strong>:  Wonderful! So, around this age, we begin to feel there must be something more, but we can\u2019t see what it is.<\/p>\n

John<\/strong>:   So is this the essence of the \u2018mid-life crisis\u2019? The first half hasn\u2019t seemed all that long, you feel you\u2019ve wasted a lot of time, you\u2019re not very satisfied with what you\u2019re doing now either, and life suddenly feels very short? And <\/em>you don\u2019t know what to do <\/em>about it  .  .  .<\/p>\n

Robin<\/strong>:   That\u2019s why we feel depressed. It\u2019s a healthy reaction, a sign that we are re-drawing our map of the world, changing our values. And if all goes well at this stage, our disillusionment with the conventional stereotyped values we\u2019ve been operating on leads to a turning back towards the inner world, and the deeper, unchanging satisfactions of life: exploring more deeply our relationships with people; attending much more to nature, beauty, art; and getting more interested in spiritual teachings and what they tell us about the meaning and purpose of life. Of course, we don\u2019t lose what\u2019s real in our education and experience. Our knowledge, skills, social competence and ability to do useful work and earn our living are all still useful<\/em>. Bu we come back more and more to a strong inner life, where we become interested in exploring things and parts of ourselves that up to now we\u2019ve neglected. We begin to do things that we personally value rather than things we feel we ought<\/em> to.<\/p>\n

*     *     *<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u201cImmature love says: ‘I love you because I need you.’ <\/strong><\/address>\n
Mature love says ‘I need you because I love you.\u201d<\/strong><\/address>\n
 <\/address>\n
\u2015 Erich Fromm<\/a> <\/strong>(1900-1980) <\/address>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

\u00a4  Robin Skynner & John Cleese:   LIFE and how to survive it    [1993] <\/p>\n

The Price of Everything and the Value of Nothing  – [excerpts]<\/p>\n

Robin: \u2026I like the idea of a Greek psychologist called Charis Katakis. She\u2019s taken a word we\u2019re familiar with \u2013\u2018myth\u2019– and given it a wider meaning. […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":28,"featured_media":51328,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[177,178],"tags":[187,206],"class_list":["post-7514","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-texts","category-interview","tag-advice","tag-text","odd"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/englishroam.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/7514","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/englishroam.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/englishroam.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/englishroam.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/28"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/englishroam.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=7514"}],"version-history":[{"count":36,"href":"https:\/\/englishroam.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/7514\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":51786,"href":"https:\/\/englishroam.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/7514\/revisions\/51786"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/englishroam.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/media\/51328"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/englishroam.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=7514"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/englishroam.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=7514"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/englishroam.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=7514"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}